When Pamela Zelaya looks back on her early years growing up in Peru, what stands out most for her is a sense of connection — with her extended family, her classmates and the local community. Her passion for building bridges and facilitating connection shines through in her work as a Latin American advocate and Spanish interpreter in Wayne County. In this episode of the podcast, Kate and Pam explore these topics as well as the importance of making information and experiences accessible to more people as a way of improving community life as a whole.
Transcript
Pam Zelaya: I’m Pam Zelaya. I’m a Spanish translator and Latin American advocate.
Kate Jetmore: From Civic Spark Media and the Western Wayne News in Wayne County, Indiana, I’m Kate Jetmore. As a native of Richmond, Indiana, I’m excited to be sitting down with some of our neighbors, and listening to the stories that define our community. My guest today is Pamela Zelaya, a native of Peru who has lived in Richmond since 2008. She became an American citizen in 2018. Pam has collaborated with organizations like the Wayne County Health Clinic and Neighborhood Health Center to support the local Latino community as a liaison and interpreter. Currently, she works for Richmond Community Schools as an English language learning instructional interpreter, and for Firefly Children & Family Alliance as a bilingual community navigator. Mother of son Connor, Pam loves traveling, biking, Latin dancing, gourmet food, and cultural events. She is also a pet owner, an animal lover who is working to reduce the feral cat population in Richmond. Welcome, Pam. Thanks so much for joining me on this show today.
Pam Zelaya: Thank you for having me today.
Kate Jetmore: You have been in Richmond for many years now, as we said, but you’re a native of Peru. Give us a sense of where you grew up and what your childhood was like.
Pam Zelaya: Well, I would have to say that my childhood was amazing. One of the memories that I have, I feel like I lived the extremes. For example, I had such a wonderful, incredible experience. And then also I went through difficult situations, too, but one of the most beautiful things that I remember my childhood was the outdoors. So, I would have to say that I was kind of like a free-range kid. I was running around, going to the beach, no attachments, not too many rules unless I was at home. And that’s what I love about my childhood, that I was able to be free as a child, playing a lot outside the house with friends and neighbors, kids, and then spending our summers at the beach, and going different places, new places, meeting new people, eating the special food that … Such a diversity of different things. I remember being exposed to that.
Kate Jetmore: Can you tell us more about the food? That’s clearly something that is a good memory for you.
Pam Zelaya: Yes, definitely. One of the wonderful things about Peru is you can experience many things. If you are somebody that likes to travel and love food, definitely you’re in the right place, because Peru have so many different habitats and regions. Actually, Peru is divided in three places. We call in the coast, the highlands, and the jungle. So, each area have different type of food and also if you go to the North Peru, it’s different than the center, than the South. And also in different locations and different areas, you see such a diversity of the vegetables, and meats, and grains, and things that makes Peru such a rich place to explore.
Kate Jetmore: Yeah, you mentioned the beach. So, I’m guessing that you grew up in the coastal area, is that right?
Pam Zelaya: That’s right. I grew up in the North Peru in a small town called Talara, but actually my dad was working in the petroleum company, so we were living at the petroleum company base. They have a name, they call it Punta Arenas. It was kind of like a gated community, and it was pretty much very close to the beach. So, the experience of being close to the ocean is like, “Yeah, we eat a lot of seafood,” and so [inaudible 00:04:43] fresh seafood. And then traveling more to other towns, going to North Peru, and even getting very close to the border, to the Ecuador, well, we stopped in different towns, different beach areas, and you were able to see so many things that we remember, that we like it to repeat it all the time. Every year, “Let’s go to the same place.” And every year that we go into the same place, we also live new things.
Kate Jetmore: How interesting that you can find that those new experiences within that familiar structure that you were after every year. And what about school, Pam? What was school like for you growing up?
Pam Zelaya: Well, the school was actually in the same gated community in Punta Arenas. So, it means I was walking from home to school, and sometimes I was riding my bike over there. The school, it was a small school, mostly for the kids that were part of the petroleum company. They were living in this gated community, so everybody was very close. And sometimes we have kids that were coming outside the schools, and they were kind of new, but mostly were kids from the area, and also some of the parents were teachers, and even the principal was living in the same area. And we have a very nice concept of being together as a community.
Kate Jetmore: And were you in that school system all the way through from kindergarten or until all the way the end of high school?
Pam Zelaya: No, it was until seventh grade, but we don’t have kindergarten, so we have just first grade, and that is kind of the preschool, but it’s not like kindergarten right here. So, we go straight from first grade, all the way to 12th grade, but I finished we’re going to call the high school in Lima pretty much, in a different school. So, it kind of put me away. We moved away from this community and I was kind of heartbroken.
Kate Jetmore: Aww.
Pam Zelaya: And live in the city was a little difficult, but because we have such a large family, I would have to say that my cousins were my best friends, my sisters, and we always … And these large families and events, and I remember that was something kind of the highlight of my childhood is when with the whole family got together, and especially then like Christmas and other celebrations.
Kate Jetmore: And that’s sort of a whole different kind of community, isn’t it?
Pam Zelaya: Yes, it’s different. It’s different, because you identify yourself a lot with your family. Well, in all the families sometimes you have conflicts or sometimes you were part of the conflicts, but sometimes the family was sharing a lot of stuff, too. I have one uncle that he have a beach house, and in a very nice beach town, and oh my goodness, all of us, we have to go to that place, and we have such a great time over there, and I remember how much I enjoyed going to that place with my cousins, and sometimes my parents, and my uncle was such a generous guy, and he was renting or pretty much loaning the house to almost everybody that he knows, everybody in the family. For some reason, we were able to enjoy this place.
Kate Jetmore: Amazing. Well, Pam, I want to jump forward a little bit now. As we said in the intro, you’ve been in Richmond for over 15 years now, and you work as a translator, an interpreter, and advocate for the community. What can you share about the role you play here in Richmond?
Pam Zelaya: Well, this is a role that I wasn’t planning for my life [inaudible 00:09:24]. I mean, I did not grow up thinking I’m going to be an interpreter and a Latin advocate. When I came to Richmond, I find myself. I find myself in the sense that I realized there was such a need of somebody being in pretty much a liaison, and a liaison not only in communication, but also in culture. So, I would have to say that my role is more like a facilitating role, and it’s not a role like you just only interpret or you only do the communication part. Now, actually it’s more than that, and I want to say something very like a little story that it comes to my mind.
Kate Jetmore: Mm-hmm.
Pam Zelaya: Well, I’m not the only interpreter in the school. We are several and we have a meeting and this past school year was a little different than the other ones. We have more immigrant kids than ever. So, we have our cup full. Well, in the meeting, and I was asking the question, “Hey, guys, what do you feel like it was your challenge this year? What it was the most challenging for you and what things did you encounter?”
So, one of my coworkers respond and she said, “Well, I think I’ve been doing everything. I’m an educator, I’m a counselor, I’m a disciplinarian, I’m a mom, I’m a nurse, I’m being everything.” And just like, “That you’re absolutely right. That’s actually what interpreters we are.” We are more than interpreters. We are consultants, we’re advocates, we are cultural brokers, we are immersed in many things, but actually our main role is facilitating, and creating, building that bridge for understanding. So, we’re also facilitating what we call inclusion and equity, these two new concepts that I’m now learning, and I know that other organizations are learning more about, and trying to educate others about these two concepts about inclusion and equity.
Kate Jetmore: And how do you define those terms?
Pam Zelaya: Well, inclusion means if you are an interpreter and you are facilitating the communication, you’re including one part with the other, and the other part with the other. So, it means when you are new, and you don’t know the language, things are new for you. There are things that you don’t know, you never experienced in your country. So, it means you have to include the person in explaining things and facilitate the communication.
Kate Jetmore: Right, and it sounds like inclusion … It sounds obvious, but inclusion is preventing people from being excluded, which is what often happens when you don’t speak the language or have a similar culture in common.
Pam Zelaya: Exactly, and it’s not like people do this on purpose. It’s like all organizations or places do it in purpose this test.
Kate Jetmore: Right.
Pam Zelaya: Nobody knows, so you need to create this. You say, “Oh, well we need somebody to help us to facilitate our process.” You facilitate the access to same opportunities that everybody else is getting it, because they speak the same [inaudible 00:13:08].
Kate Jetmore: And the other terms, so inclusion and?
Pam Zelaya: Equity.
Kate Jetmore: Okay. And how do you define that?
Pam Zelaya: Equity is mostly when you … For example, I had to provide you a paper, and not everybody can read the paper in the same way. For example, other people will need glasses, so you provide the glasses, other people will need … Or for example, they will need bigger letters, and you provide bigger letters, other people will need something smaller and simple and you provide that smaller and simple. Other people need to read this in a different language and you provide that in a different language, but everybody will have the same access to the same paper. That is different than when you say equality, it’s like everybody received the same paper.
Kate Jetmore: Right.
Pam Zelaya: You are equal, you received the same paper, but are not acting in equity.
Kate Jetmore: Yes,
Pam Zelaya: And equity is when you really wants to transmit a message and you make it accessible to everybody, and when they are standing.
Kate Jetmore: Right, it actually reminds me-
Pam Zelaya: Like if you put yourself in their shoes.
Kate Jetmore: Yeah, it reminds me of a simple drawing that I’ve seen before where people are all trying to look over a fence, and the fence-
Pam Zelaya: Exactly.
Kate Jetmore: … is pretty tall. Do you know what I’m talking about?
Pam Zelaya: Exactly, mm-hmm.
Kate Jetmore: So, the tall guy has no problem seeing over the fence, but then there are two shorter people, and they need a ladder to stand on or a box to stand on. And then they can all see over the fence, but they’re not sort of starting with the same advantages of height-
Pam Zelaya: Exactly.
Kate Jetmore: … in this example.
Pam Zelaya: Right. If you don’t have the boxes, then they won’t be able to see it.
Kate Jetmore: Exactly.
Pam Zelaya: So, what you need to do is put the fence down.
Kate Jetmore: That’s right, or raise the people up, right?
Pam Zelaya: Mm-hmm, exactly.
Kate Jetmore: I’d love to talk about the word immigrant. This is a word that we hear so often or read so often in the press that it becomes almost background noise, and almost loses its power or its significance, but it is a significant word, it is a significant role in our society. And I’d just love to hear from you firsthand about what it’s like to be a Latin American immigrant in the United States. Can you talk about that a bit?
Pam Zelaya: Sure. Well, in my case, I wasn’t planning to be an immigrant here. I wasn’t planning to immigrate to the States. Actually, my plan was to, “Hey, I want to learn English. I want to at least experience living in a different country. I want to learn new skills and then go back,” you know?
Kate Jetmore: Yeah.
Pam Zelaya: And things changed, but if I think about all of my friends that they’re being immigrants here, that truly in their mind they’re thinking, “I need to immigrate to the States,” then you have to ask the question, what motivates you to immigrate to a different country where you don’t know the language, you don’t know what experience you are going to have, you maybe will need somebody to connect you. Where are you going to be? Because when you are talking about an immigrant, it means you have to leave everything behind. So it means-
Kate Jetmore: Right.
Pam Zelaya: … your health, your car, your friends, your family, all your environment that you know, and you need to start over completely. So, you need everything the same. You need a bed where to sleep, you need a table where you eat, you need a stove where to cook, a house, you need a job, you need to see the doctor when you need it, or a dentist. So, you need to start over everything again. So, when you hear and when you say immigrant, you say, “Okay, immigrant, what motivates you to come over here?”
There are great motivators and one of the great motivators is when you’re in a place you don’t have the resources that you need to live a good life, and then it’s not like … We are all living beings. When you see a bird immigrating from Canada all the way to Argentina, they’re already using their instinct, and they know where to stop, they know where to eat, they know where they’re going to stay at, but human beings, we are different. It is very hard to leave everything behind. It’s so difficult. In my case, I thought, “Oh yeah, I will make it.” Oh, trust me, my first year, my second year were not cool.
Kate Jetmore: Yeah.
Pam Zelaya: Were difficult.
Kate Jetmore: I’m curious, Pam, I’m curious about … And of course this will only be your personal experience, your opinion when it comes to observing other people, and this won’t be everyone’s story, but I’m curious whether you think the majority of immigrants are moving away from something, moving away from a difficult situation, or moving towards something, which might be defined as opportunity or resources as you said, or safety, which do you think is more common?
Pam Zelaya: More common is getting away, because sometimes there are situations in life that are not livable. Nobody wants to live in a place where you don’t have water or electricity, or you don’t know what you’re going to eat the next day, or no access to healthcare, or transportation. And you realize, “I just can’t live this way,” and it has to be a big motivator, something to say, “What if we can go over here where everybody’s telling me that I can work and I can at least maintain hours, $10 per hour, and maybe I can have a house, and I can provide education for my kids?” There are big motivators. Nothing is like, “Oh no, just moving, because I want to move.” No. “I want to immigrate, because I want to do it.” No.
Kate Jetmore: Right.
Pam Zelaya: There are big motivators. There are things that are out of your control. That situation is totally out of your control.
Kate Jetmore: And I think that the vast majority of people who haven’t been in that situation, it’s hard to imagine, it’s hard to put yourself in those shoes if you have never been there yourself, but it’s also so important to try. And you mentioned the importance that our own children play in our decisions. I know you have a son, Connor, who recently graduated from Richmond High School. He was the leader of the percussion section in the marching band, which won awards while he was leading the section. I’d love to hear your take as a mom on how arts programs in the schools have enriched your son’s life.
Pam Zelaya: I have to say that I’m very grateful that my son was able to have access to such a wonderful programs, because I think they’re very important. Any type of arts in sports in the schools are absolutely needed, and one of the things that I noticed mostly, not only in my kid was able to improve his skills, or his talent, because I believe that Connor have a talent for percussion. And without being able to have that in the school, I don’t know how I will know that he has this talent.
Kate Jetmore: Right.
Pam Zelaya: I had to figure it out that I realized that he was very musical, and so I tried to encourage him to be in any of the … Enroll him in any of these programs, but I was glad that these programs were part of the curriculum. So, he choose the band and I was like, “Oh, that’s cool.” And it was even a point that he said, “Well, I’m kind of tired about the band.” And say, “No, you’re not leaving the band. You are going to continue in the band.” And even with [inaudible 00:22:38]-
Kate Jetmore: Because you could see something.
Pam Zelaya: Yes, we see something. I see that he was having such a great time, and what I love about that was the way he was able to connect well with his teachers. He has such a good friends in the band, and they just create like a family. I hope that I’m right, but I love to see these kids when they get together, and how they spend such a good time. I know that also being at the band wasn’t easy. There was a lot of new skills that you need to learn, prepare themselves. It was a lot of responsibility.
Kate Jetmore: Right.
Pam Zelaya: But I like that. The kids want that you give them responsibilities. They want that you give them guidance.
Kate Jetmore: Right.
Pam Zelaya: They want to see flourish. They want to see like, “Oh, I can sing with my friends, and everybody clap to us, and everybody comes to see us, and they congratulate us.” Your kids want that. That’s good for their self-esteem.
Kate Jetmore: Right.
Pam Zelaya: All kind of arts and the sports are wonderful. So, I hope that they continue this way in the school. I didn’t have that when I was growing up. So, this was something totally new as a parent. It was totally new about when he joined the marching band, especially when he started doing performance during the summer, and I don’t know what to expect. I was like, “What are you talking about?” That was something new for me as an immigrant, that was totally new. People was talking about the marching band, “And we’re doing this performance in here and there,” and I was trying to figure out all of this. So, the first year was kind of tough.
Kate Jetmore: Well, that’s a really interesting distinction that you’re making, because I think sometimes when a tradition is very strong, and deeply rooted, and has been around for generations, like marching band in Indiana, sometimes people don’t realize that it’s not a tradition in other places. And so, it’s so interesting for you to come in and discover, even while your son was discovering, “What is this? I’m loving it.” And you’re also discovering it, and you said, Pam, that it was brand new for you, but I just want to reflect back to you something that you said as you were describing it. You said it was a point of connection. He connected with his teachers, he connected with his friends, and his bandmates, and that is exactly what you were saying about your childhood in Peru. You said there was so much connection, “We were all connected.” So in that sense, it wasn’t completely new. That aspect of it wasn’t completely new. Would you agree with that?
Pam Zelaya: Completely, and as somebody that works in the schools and in elementary schools especially, kids love to get to be connected. They love that you’re seeing them. They want that you see, and then you clap at them, that you encourage when they’re doing something great. They want that you hug them, that you, “Look at my drawing.” We need that. That’s the way how a kid connects with adults, and other people in their community is that they’re being seen.
Kate Jetmore: Yes.
Pam Zelaya: That you notice they are there, they’re here in this world.
Kate Jetmore: Yeah. Well, Pam, I want to thank you so much for all you do in the community. You are a bridge, you are a point of connection, and you do make sure that people feel seen. So, thank you for all you do, and thank you for taking the time to be with us on this show today. I want to wish you and your family all the best.
Pam Zelaya: Thank you so much for having me here today. I really appreciate that, too.